According to Mr. Hymn, “Seems like some pawns on the pseudo-state's payroll can't even enjoy the festive season without spilling their venom and hatred through blunt propaganda.”
First of all, I would like to verify that I am an unpaid intern who is also a full-time student at the University of Maryland at College Park, where I am majoring in Jewish Studies and Government and Politics, with minors in French and Middle Eastern Studies. I pay $25 per week in metro expenses just so that I can aid the Turkish Cypriot cause. I receive absolutely no income outside the $50 per week in allowance that my parents give me. My main incentive for doing all of this work on behalf of the TRNC is a love for the Turkish Cypriot people and exposing what I consider to be the truth. Spreading hatred and venom was never one of my intentions nor is not part of my work with the TRNC Representative Office.
According to Mr. Hymn, “The Cyprus issue goes as far back as 1570, specifically the 9th of September 1570 which is when Nicosia fell to the invading Ottomans. But the siege itself and the occupation are not so much of an issue, especially when we look upon how they chose to celebrate their victory and send a message to the rest of the island’s population. The message was sent by slaughtering some 20,000 Nicosians, burning churches, public buildings, and then looting any thing that had remained standing. But if we look into later events, we’d see that Turkey through the activities of TMT clearly advocated the partition and THAT is the beginning.”
I would be very interested to learn where Mr. Hymn heard such myths. It would have been nice if he actually gave some sources to back up his grave accusations. Unfortunately for him, I am a woman who BACKS UP WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. I shall now reveal the truth through source citations.
According to Harry Scott Gibbon’s “The Genocide Files,” “The first definite evidence of human habitation was about 7,000 BC, when settlers arrived from southern Turkey, Syria, and Palestine.”
“The island split up into several kingdoms which paid tribute to the Assyrians, the Egyptians, and then the Persians. Alexander the Great’s defeat of the Persians in 333 BC freed Cyprus, but on his death ten years later the island was fought over by his generals Ptolemy and Antigonus and finally became part of the Egyptian Ptolemy kingdom for 250 years. The Roman Empire took over from 58 BC to 395 AD, then followed Byzantine Cyprus from 395 to 1191.”
In other words, thus far, we have Assyrian, Egyptian, Persian, Macedonian, and Romans ruling Cyprus. No Greeks. Contrary to what the Greeks claim, the Byzantines were a Roman people, not Greek. They were known in history as the Eastern Roman Empire. Ptolemy was Egyptian, not Greek. And Alexander the Great was Macedonian, not Greek.
Richard the Lionheart of England took conquered Cyprus from the Byzantines in 1191. He would quickly hand over control to the Templars. But when ruling the island become too much for them to handle, Richard the Lionheart handed control of the island over to his friend Guy de Lusignan.
“The Venetians then took over the island from 1489 to 1571 when the Ottoman Turks conquered it and held it until 1878. Greek Orthodoxy was encouraged by the Ottomans, who banned the Latin Church. In 1878, the Ottomans leased Cyprus to Britain in return for supporting Turkey against Russia. When Turkey chose to fight on the side of Germany in WWI, Britain annexed the island.”
Thus, looking at this history, it is impossible to conclude, as Mr. Hymn does, that the Cyprus conflict began in 1570 with the arrival of the Ottoman Turks. It is also impossible to not recognize the existence of the Turkish Cypriots, whose roots can be traced back to 7,000 BC.
I would also like to inquire from Mr. Hymn, in what period in history did the Turks slaughter 20,000 Greek Cypriots from Nicosia alone and deliberately burn churches? From what sources did you hear this from? What documentation do you have to support this accusation?
I would also like to clarify why the TMT was formed and provide documentation to back this up. According to the non-biased website http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/narrative-main-%203.htm, the TMT was founded as a direct result of Greek violence. “Although the TMT organized the defence of the Turkish minority and there were a number of acts of retaliation directed at the Greek Cypriots, there is no doubt that the main victims of the numerous incidents that took place during the next few months were Turks. 700 Turkish Cypriot hostages, including women and children, were seized in the northern suburbs of Nicosia. The mixed suburb of Omorphita suffered the most from an independent gang of Greek Cypriot irregulars led by Nicos Sampson who, claiming to be rescuing a Greek section surrounded by Turks, in fact made a full-dress assault on the Turkish Cypriot population.” Thus, the Turkish Cypriot TMT was doing nothing more than defending their little enclaves from EOKA attacks, just as the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto Fighters defended themselves against the Nazi aggression. And given all of the atrocities that the Turkish Cypriots faced from EOKA, can any one blame them for wanting their own state separate from the Greek Cypriots? How can any one trust a neighbour who is slaughtering their family members? Try to tell a Turkish Cypriot child whose parents were murdered by Greek Cypriots that they should be able to live peacefully with their Greek Cypriot neighbours.
According to Mr. Hymn, “What R. Salomon fails to understand is the people’s desire for liberation and self-determination. But one must wonder why the attempt to imply that the British ‘allowed the Greeks to settle on the island’….is this a probable attempt to present the aboriginals as the invaders, the newcomers that disrupted the islands peace while we disclose the fact that it’s actually the other way around?”
My only point in bringing this up was to demonstrate that under British rule, the number of Greeks on the island increased and that is all. The Greeks are not the aboriginals on the island. Greeks have lived on the island for some time, but through out history the island has never been owned by Greeks before the Greek Cypriots high jacked the title of the “Republic of Cyprus.” I am not trying to deny Greek Cypriots rights to live on Cyprus. My only intention is to show that Turkish Cypriots have just as much of a right to live there as Greek Cypriots. And I understand “a people’s desire for liberation and self-determination” very well. I am a Zionist. I have supported Israel’s right for self-determination through out my life. I also strongly support the Turkish Cypriot right to self-determination and liberation. That is another reason why I was against the War in Iraq, because I support people’s right to self-determination. I have also supported the Sudanese, Rwandans, and Bosnians in their struggles to liberate themselves from genocide. If any one has an issue recognizing “a people’s right for liberation and self-determination,” it is you, for you support that for the Greek Cypriot people but want to deny that same right to the Turkish Cypriot people. No one is saying that Greek Cypriot’s don’t have a right to exist. All we pro-Turkish people are arguing is that the same rights should be given to Turkish Cypriots.
According to Mr. Hymn, “Singing in favour of slaughter is one thing and singing songs that speak of liberty from oppression, songs celebrating the strive for freedom from foreign yoke are a totally different issue which the author unfortunately seems unable to understand.”
I agree that singing songs in favour of liberation and singing songs of slaughter are two different things. I understand the difference. However, the reality is that the Turkish Cypriots sing songs of liberation, while the Greek Cypriots sing songs of slaughter. Allow me to give some examples to prove this.
This Turkish Cypriot song was taken from http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/renewal_of_violence%20-%20'57-58.htm:
Oh Turkish Youth!
The day is near when you will be called upon to sacrifice your life and blood in the 'PARTITION' struggle -- to the struggle for freedom. . . .
You are a brave Turk. You are faithful to your country and nation and are entrusted with the task of demonstrating Turkish might. Be ready to break the chains of slavery with your determination and willpower and with your love of freedom. All Turkdom, right and justice and God are with you.
To the contrary, Greek Cypriot youth are trained in their schools to chant and sing slogans calling for the “Death of the Turkish Dogs.”
According to Mr. Hymn, “Seems like R. Salomon despite her visit to Turkey and open support of the pseudo-state, she hasn’t actually learnt or neglected to tell us about how the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot youth are raised and educated.”
I would first like to state that all of the quotes provided by Mr. Hymn in this field are fabricated lies. It is the Greek Cypriot youth, not the Turkish Cypriot youth, who are taught to hate. The Greek Cypriot author, Antonis Angastiniyotis, writes:
“The majority of the Greek Cypriot youth know very little about the events that led to the island's division. The tragic events of 1974 have been used as a huge curtain to cover up the real events that led to the division of the two people. In our schools it has always surprised me that while talking about the heroism of EOKA, they skip 15-years and continue with 1974. Either nothing happened between 1960 and 1974, or no one wants to discuss this. While researching the events during this period (1960-74), I realized that the second choice was right. When I started to write this research, my cousin from Greece and her two daughters came to visit me and we started to discuss the events of 1963-74. The daughters knew nothing and what their mother knew was very confusing. At one stage of the discussion I mentioned some of the Greek Cypriot leadership's mistakes and all of a sudden this brought out the nationalist monster in my cousin who said: "Makarios' biggest mistake was not to have killed all the Turkish Cypriots in order for us to be comfortable". This sweet and pretty woman, who couldn't even kill an ant, had suddenly turned into a killer who could carry out mass murders. She wanted a whole race to be wiped out. This is what I said to her: "In other words, do you mean taking out all the children from school, all mothers with their babies and all the men from their work places and taking them to a big hole in Messaria and murder them…Do you want to be one of the murders or the one of the persons using the bulldozer to cover the mass graves…" There was silence. The example I gave helped her to understand the meaning of what she said. Then I started to speak again. "We tried this before in Ayvasil, Murataga, Atlilar, Taskent, but the only thing we succeeded in was soughing the fruits of our efforts". Since our childhood we were taught that the Turks were barbaric dogs. My aunt used to say to me that they smelled because they weren't baptized. Whereas according to the Bible, we are modern Christians who love their environment. Then, why did our religious leader Makarios in 1964 say that 'If Turkey comes to intervene to protect the Turkish Cypriots, she will not find a single Turkish Cypriot to save…' The answer is clear. In Cyprus there is a saying, 'another priest's sermon'. In certain situations this enables us to hate. This book will deal with some of these special situations.”
This, my friend, is the truth about what is really going on in the field of Greek Cypriot education.
According to Mr. Hymn, “It’s quite interesting to note that while R. Salomon mentions the Hellenic-Cypriots not wanting the constitution to work and thus opposed the idea of coexistence. She neglects to mention that ALL Turkish Cypriots in favor of coexistence were KILLED by the Turkish TMT. While we could continue with endless examples of TMT instigation and promotion of partition, but as a note, let’s just say that it’s at least sad to see allegedly impartial writers promoting such blind propaganda. Finally, it’s highly interesting to note that although according to R. Salomon the Hellenic Cypriots had no interest in coexistence. According to the Gallo Plaza report, we find the exact opposite.”
First of all, the TMT did not kill ALL of the Turkish Cypriots in favor of coexistence. That is a flat out lie. Like many revolutionary organizations, they were not perfect. Nevertheless, their crimes don’t even approach the number that EOKA committed. And keep in mind that the TMT was founded as a response to EOKA, not the other way around.
According to the Washington Star, “Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials. People who were told by Makarios to lay down their guns were shot by the National Guard.”
The EOKA terrorists began to murder the Makarios supporters because they were not slaughtering the Turkish Cypriots quickly enough.
According to the memoirs of the Greek Cypriot MP Rina Katsellis, “The Makarios supporters arrested, the EOKA-B supporters freed……I did not shed a tear. Why should I? Did the stupidity and fanaticism deserve a tear? There are some who beg Turkey to intervene. They prefer the intervention of Turkey. […] Every one is frozen with fear….the old man who asked for the body of his son was shot on the spot. The tortures and executions at the central prison….every one is frozen with horror. Nothing is sacred to these people, and they call themselves Greeks!”
Some Greek Cypriots preferred Turkish Intervention to Greek terror from EOKA. I don’t blame them for feeling this way. According to the British Parliament, “In the four days that followed the coup, an estimated 2,000 people known to be ardent supporters of Makarios were killed. Their names were later added to those killed during the subsequent Turkish invasion.” Thus, this further proves my point that a great number of the Greek Cypriot civilian deaths were the result of the junta, not the Turkish intervention.
According to Professor Alexis Heraklides, “Some of the Greek Cypriot missing persons were killed by their very compatriots. [….] In an attempt to re-write a different version of history based on certain selected memories, this inevitably leads to a picture which is detached from the realities of the past.”
On March 3, 1996, Cyprus Mail published, “Subsequent Greek Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all causalities. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the missing is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool.”
On October 19, 1996, Mr. George Lanitis wrote, “I was serving with the Foreign Information Service of the Republic of Cyprus in London. I deeply apologize to all those I told that there are 1,619 missing persons. I misled them. I was made a liar, deliberately, by the Government of Cyprus. Now it seems that the credibility of Cyprus is nil.”
I could go on and on about how the EOKA terrorists persecuted both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. I believe the list would be much longer than the list that Mr. Hymn provided for the TMT.
As for the TRNC seeking partition, who can blame them, when they have been denied equal rights under the federal system that they were promised under the Treaty of Guarantee and were forced into enclaves by armed EOKA gunmen? People resort to such measures when they feel that there is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE. They were being attacked constantly by the Greek Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots needed to take such measures in order to save Turkish Cypriot lives. Apparently, Mr. Hymn does not comprehend the need for self-defense and methods for surviving constant ambushes and genocidal attacks.
According to Mr. Hymn, “The Akritas Plan had NOTHING to do with the use of force and anyone that has actually read the plan knows this as a fact.”
I have read the plan several times and I beg to disagree with Mr. Hymns strongly on this matter. Many highly respectable sources would also disagree with him on these facts.
As Rauf Denkash said, “The Akritas Plan destroyed the only compromise ever reached between Greece and Turkey and between Greek and Turkish Cypriots about Cyprus. It revived bloodshed and hatred. It thrust Cyprus and its peoples back into the extremes of Enosis and partition.”
According to Rauf Denkash, “The Akritas Organization started planning a different future for Cyprus. Apart from military plans, a general plan for the extermination of Turkish Cypriots was prepared.”
According to Alekos Constantinides, writing in the Greek Cypriot daily Alithia, December 14, 1985, “We have to accept that the Akritas Plan not only did open the way to partition of the island but it also caused the collapse of the Republic of Cyprus.”
This article from Turkish Daily News tells it all:
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/editorial.php?ed=ali_kulebi
This article on the history of Cyprus also confirms this fact:
http://www.cypnet.co.uk/ncyprus/history/republic/akritas.html
Harry Scott Gibbons also speaks of this same topic in the Journal of International Affairs:
http://www.sam.gov.tr/perceptions/Volume6/September-November2001/HARRY_SCOTT_GIBBONS_6.PDF
According to Mr. Hymn, “It is a well proven fact that immediately after Turkey received Makarios’ letter informing them of the alterations of the Constitution he was about to propose, the Turkish Cypriot representatives received orders from the newly appointed Turkish Ambassador Mazar Ozgol to abandon all public service and governmental positions.”
THIS IS A BLATANT LIE.
According to Michael Stephen of the British Parliament, “Greek Cypriots often claim that the Turkish Cypriots withdrew voluntarily from their positions in the State, but this is not correct. They were excluded by threats to their personal safety.”
The UK Commons Select Committee concluded that “When in July 1965 the Turkish Cypriot members of the House of Representatives had sought to resume their seats they were told that they could do so only if they accepted the legislative changes to the operation of the Constitution enacted in their absence.”
Since these constitutional changes would have given the Turkish Cypriots the status of being minorities, instead of equal citizens, no Turkish Cypriot leader could accept the 13 Points made in their absence. They were unacceptable.
According to Mr. Hymn, “It was then the Hellenic Cypriots first presented the Iphestos Plan toward the US by stating that they should allow Turkey to invade, the very second they enter the country’s waters it would leave them approximately 75 minutes to exterminate the Turkish Cypriot population in order to protect themselves.”
THIS JUST PROVES RIGHT HERE THAT MR. HYMN IS PROMOTING THE IDEA OF COMMITING GENOCIDE AGAINST THE TURKISH CYPRIOTS IN ORDER TO PROMOTE ENOSIS AND DISTORT HISTORY IN FAVOR OF THE GREEK CYPRIOTS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE AKRITAS PLAN!
The whole purpose of the plan, according to the unbiased British journalist Harry Scott Gibbons, was “to attack the Turkish Cypriots suddenly, every where in the island, and to eliminate them one and all.” This the Greek Cypriot administration planned on doing, regardless. It had nothing to do with preventing a Turkish reaction.
Indeed, it was Makarios himself, who declared in 1964, while the Greek Cypriots were brutally attacking Erenkoy that “he would order an attack on every Turkish village and Turkey would find no Turkish Cypriots left alive if they landed.” In other words, the goal was to kill as many Turkish Cypriots as possible before any outside force could intervene to save the Turkish Cypriots.
As American Under-Secretary of State, George Ball said, “Makarios’ central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots.”
According to Mr. Hymn, “The ridiculous comparison of Cypriots to Nazis is at least described as pathetic and actually indicates that the pseudo-state has managed to infest her with.”
First of all, I was comparing the Greek Cypriot leadership to the Nazis, not the Greek and Turkish Cypriot peoples. This is not a ridiculous and pathetic comparison, as Mr. Hymn would like people to believe, for as I demonstrated above, the Greek Cypriot leadership sought to exterminate the entire Turkish population on Cyprus. Allow me to show some quotes made by the Greek Cypriots that demonstrate such vile hatred and compare them with quotes made by the Nazis.
According to Nicos Sampson, “Had Turkey not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed Enosis-----I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus.” (Greek Cypriot)
According to Adolph Hitler, “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” (Nazi)
According to Makarios, "Until this Turkish community forming part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered as terminated." (Greek Cypriot)
According to Julius Streicher, “If the danger of the reproduction of that curse of God in the Jewish blood is finally to come to an end, then there is only one way - the extermination of that people whose father is the Devil.” (Nazi)
According to the Greek Cypriot newspaper, Simerini, 17 August 1996, “We will drink Turkish blood. Death to the Turks.” (Greek Cypriot)
According to Joseph Gobbels, “A Jew is for me an object of disgust. I feel like vomiting when I see one. Christ could not possibly have been a Jew. It is not necessary to prove that scientifically - it is a fact.” (Nazi)
Looking at these quotes, one can not help but see the resemblance between the two.
According to Mr. Hymn, “Let’s just end this by stating that it’s beyond pathetic to exploit the memories and sorrow of an entire people to promote some sick propaganda. But as we’ve proven, the pseudo-state’s propagandist places their payroll above humanity and the truth.”
First of all, I am not on payroll. Second of all, I had family that died in the Holocaust. I have family friends who have personally survived the Holocaust. As a Jew, I would have never made the comparison if I did not find it valid. Unfortunately for you, Mr. Hymn, my comparison is very valid, despite your denial of this.
According to Hellenic Pride’s comment on Mr. Hymn’s article, “Great post Orphic, what else would you expect from Turkey’s allies the Jews?”
This proves the Greek Lobby’s anti-Semitism beyond a reasonable doubt. As long as Greece is ranked the most xenophobic and anti-Semitic country in all of Europe, expect the Jewish people to side with the Turks on all issues of importance to you guys.
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45 comments:
Excellent rebuttal. Nice to read that one should not pull punches against one who lashes out in a likewise manner. It's also good to see that you have solid sources backing your rebuttal. Of course, its only going to provoke more heated rhetoric from the opposition, but I wouldn't expect anything less from those who have nothing but hatred of Turkish Cypriots in their hearts.
That's true. Did you see that some of my people, Jews, are beginning to respond to one of those articles? And one even accused them of anti-Semitism?
By the way, kiwi, I just discovered that our friend Orphic Hymn left out key parts of the Galo Plaza reports:
84. My predecessor observed--and from my own knowledge I can confirm--that there could be no concealing the fact that the formal "prohibition" of the Enosis idea did not suppress it in Cyprus. It continued to be discussed and advocated (as well as opposed), in and out of the institutions of government, long after the date of independence. It was and remains impossible to escape the impression that for a large body of the Greek-Cypriot leaders' following, and for many of the leaders themselves, the official demand for "full independence and self-determination" had no other meaning than this: that Cyprus should be released from the treaty and constitution obligations which limited her freedom of choice, whereupon she would opt by some acceptable democratic procedure for union with Greece, this union to take place by agreement exclusively between Cyprus and Greece.
85. The records of the previous Mediator show that the possibility of majority support for Enosis--together with the need to find a way of avoiding a situation in which it might have to be imposed on an unwilling Turkish-Cypriot minority--led to a search among a number of the parties concerned in the Cyprus problem for a formula of union between Cyprus and Greece which might prove acceptable to them all. My predecessor observed that such a formula would clearly need the agreement of all of them, for juridical as well as political reasons. In principle, it would need not only to satisfy the aspirations of a numerical majority of the population of Cyprus but also to avoid provoking the active resistance en bloc, or nearly so, of the Turkish-Cypriot community and assure them of the reasonable protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms; and it would need in addition to satisfy the legitimate interests of the other parties to the problem, namely the Governments of Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom.
137. I am certain in my own mind that the question of Enosis is the most divisive and potentially the most explosive aspect of the Cyprus problem. I have been assured by the Turkish-Cypriot leadership and by the successive Governments of Turkey that any attempt to bring it about against their will would provoke active and vigorous resistance. And I judge this to be true, short of a change in attitudes which only a long passage of time could bring about. I feel bound, therefore, to examine this question with the greatest care.
142. I have stated the foregoing as matters of fact and of impression. I do not wish it to appear that I have any opinion on the merits or otherwise of Enosis. Moreover, I must also make it clear that neither the President nor the Government of Cyprus, in their discussions with me as the Mediator, actually advocated Enosis as the final solution of the Cyprus problem. Archbishop Makarios and members of the Government acknowledged that Enosis had been the original aim of the uprising against British rule and that it remained a strong aspiration among the Greek-Cypriot community. They went so far as to express the opinion that if the choice between independence and Enosis were to be put to the people there would probably be a majority in favour of the latter. Some of the Ministers and other high officials of the Government have openly advocated it in public statements.
146. I must state here in all frankness how I myself see the Enosis question in the light of the above considerations. My observations of the situation in Cyprus over a period of many months, my discussions with many of its citizens, and my consultations with representatives of all the parties concerned have made it difficult for me to see how any proposed settlement which leaves open the possibility of Enosis being brought about against the will of the Turkish-Cypriot minority can secure agreement at present or in the foreseeable future. Serious warnings have been given that an attempt to impose such a solution would be likely to precipitate not only a new out- break of violence on Cyprus itself but also a grave deterioration in relations between Turkey on the one hand and Cyprus and Greece on the other, possibly provoking actual hostilities and in any case jeopardizing the peace of the eastern Mediterranean region. The question can be raised, consequently, whether it would not be an act of enlightened statesmanship -- as well as a sovereign act of self-determination in the highest sense -- if the Government of Cyprus were in the superior interests of the security of the State and the peace of the region to undertake to maintain the independence of the Republic.
151. The reason why the Turkish-Cypriot leadership seeks a geographical separation, which does not now exist, of the two communities should, also be understood. If the fear of Enosis being imposed upon them is the major obstacle to a settlement as seen from the Turkish-Cypriot side, one reason for it is their purported dread of Greek rule. Their leaders claim also, however, that even within the context of an independent Cypriot State, events have proved that the two communities, intermingled as they are now, cannot live peacefully together. They would meet this problem by the drastic means of shifting parts of both communities in order to create two distinct geographical regions, one predominantly of Turkish-Cypriot inhabitants and the other of Greek-Cypriots. They claim that this would now be merely an extension of the process that has been forced on them by events: the greater concentration than usual of their people in certain parts of the island, notably around Nicosia and in the north-west.
156. It is essential, I think, to reconsider the objective intended to be served by the geographical separation of the two communities and to look for other ways to achieve that objective. I am inclined to regard separation not as, in itself, a basic principle in the proposals of the Turkish Government and the Turkish-Cypriot leadership, but rather as the only means which they consider workable of ensuring respect for the real principle at stake: namely, that the Turkish-Cypriot community must be protected and protected adequately. I fully support that principle. I feel strongly that the protection of the Turkish-Cypriot community is one of the most important aspects of the Cyprus problem and that everything possible must be done to ensure it, including safeguards of an exceptional kind.
159. From the moment a settlement is in sight, the Charter's insistence on respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all, without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion, will assume a capital importance in Cyprus. It will be an indispensable condition for the progressive re birth of confidence and the re-establishment of social peace. The obstacle against the full application of the principle cannot be over-estimated; an they are no less psychological than political. The violent sharpening of "national" sentiments over the months of crisis will for some time make it extremely difficult for officials at all levels to impose or even exercise strict impartiality towards all the citizens of the country, and without that impartiality and understanding there will be a constant risk acts of discrimination, even if laws are respected in the formal sense.
161. It is hardly necessary for me to say that while the safeguards would apply to all the people of both communities, in practice it is the Turkish-Cypriot minority which will stand most in need to them. The safeguards are justified not only by the need to re-establish a durable peace in the life of the island, nor only by the need to ensure that the settlement accords with the Charter of the United Nations. Simple equity also demands that these safe-guards should be provided. It will need not to be forgotten that the Turkish- Cypriot community obtained from the Zurich and London Agreements a series of rights greatly superior to those which can realistically be contemplated for it in the future. In addition, it would be just and fair to recognize that however effective the safeguards that can be devised any Turkish-Cypriot who fails to find in them a basis for reasonable confidence in the new order of things, would have the right to resettle in Turkey, and should be assisted to do so, with adequate compensation and help in starting a new life. Appropriate assistance should also be provided, without discrimination, to rehabilitate all those whose property has been destroyed or seriously damaged as a result of the disorders. This will be a task of reconstruction for which, I am confident, external assistance, including that of the United Nations family of organizations, would be forthcoming at the Government's request.
Not as pro-Greek as he made it out to be. Now, who is the one that is manipulating documents?
Rachel,
A very cogent observation. One should watch out more for what is NOT being said by these people.
Serıously. I wonder if all of those UN resolutions are as pro-Greek as he makes them out to be. He also failed to mention how the Universal Declaration of Human Rights were being violated on the Greek Cypriot side. I just showed how they were being such on the Turkish Cypriot side.
I have no idea why my post was deleted.. seems like your blog has the same mentality you do.. blind hatred to anything Hellenic..
No prob. I'll repost.
Reading disability dear Rachel.. is that what we have now and are still seeking answers to already addressed issues??
Anyway.. CYPRUS HISTORY LESSON #3 has been posted, you and kiwi, may learn a bit of what you ignore..
Hey there, Awful Him!
Perhaps you can tell us what you'd like to see for the island as a whole. However, since even the south Cypriot government thinks of itself as Greek first and foremost (having the Greek National Anthem as the Cypriot one was not what I would call subtle), I am not inclined to think that you would be more enlightened than Tassos Papadopoulos.
It's interesting to note that before, during, and after the American Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln tried to reach out to the people of the seceeded Southern States. Both his first and second inaugural addresses were quite profound in this regard.
In contrast, I have never read or heard anything from Tassos Papadopoulos reaching out to the Turkish Cypriot people. He calls himself 'President of Cyprus', so that means he is supposed to represent all Cypriots, but he sure doesn't take pains to try and communicate to the Cypriots of Turkish descent. He offers nothing concrete, all he does are small gestures that are designed to satisfy world opinion more than the Turkish Cypriot people.
As long as his first loyalty is to the Greek Cypriot populace, and as long as he thinks himself as Greek first, then nothing he says will do anything more than perpetuate the Status Quo... and since more and more people are starting to sympathize with the Turkish Cypriots, he may not have that luxury before too long.
kiwi
I see that in your desparation you resort to pathetic little provocations by manipulating the screen name.. I didn't expect anything different from a child like you..
Since you want to talk about anthems.... why don't you tell us about the pseudo-state's anthem.. or how about how Denktash then and Talat now call the occupied part of the island.. does "Turkish Cyprus" ring a bell ??
How about explaining the Denktash bannings of Turkish Cypriots from the 'Pan-Cypriots Tade Union', an organization formed by the Cypriot government to provide Turkish Cypriots with work, medical care and allows them to trade.. or the Talat threats of closing the border passings should the law suits against the illegally occupied and attempted to be sold lands continue..
Why don't you tell us exactly what is the purpose of banning your own people from such an organization and forbiding some 10.000 from passing to the South for work ??
As for the above quotes from the Galo Plaza report.. You've totally missed the point.
It was YOU that suggested that the Hellenic Cypriots didn't want to co-exist with the Turkish Cypriots..
The G.Plaza report clearly proves that the Hellenic Cypriots advocated Enosis with Hellas, BUT the Turkish Cypriots PARTITION OF THE COMMUNITIES AND THE ISLAND.
Lets hope you finally understand it..
Orphic Hymn, I do know that the Northern Cypriot REPUBLIC uses the Turkish National Anthem, and I was expecting you to dodge the original question by pointing this out. As for R. Denktash, I've had the honor of corresponding frequently with him. For ensuring the survival of the Turkish Cypriot people, he should have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
I will not stay in your political manifesto Mrs Rachel , just i want to add that the Greek presence in the island was more behind Macedonian timeline.
Just read my reponce in
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/cyprus-issue-topic/1579-rachel-salomon-pseudo-state-propagandist.html#post12719
Also I suggest to read and the below article and consern the historical revisionism/negoniatism
http://modern-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/2006/12/historical-revisionism-negationism-in.html
As you know in the Balkans we have the Macedonism and the Albanism. Maybe its time to add and the Turkism.
And in the case that you forget Macedonians was a Greek tribe.
Orphic, as I have proven on repeated occassions, the idea that the Greeks supported Enosis is proof in itself that they did not want to coexist with the Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots idea of partition was a response to Enosis, not the other way around.
Akritas, it is hard to take any one seriously who has a username promoting the infamous Akritas Plan, where the Greek Cypriot regime advocated deceiving the world about what was really going on in Cyprus, which was the slaughter of the Turkish Cypriots in order to impose Enosis on the island. By choosing such a username, you really undermind your credibility.
The problem is not my username but my argyments and the collapse of your un-historical points of views regarding Cyprish history.The Greek presence was, is and will be upstanding.
Is obvious that your history level conserning only the known Turkish thesis , then please just allow me to infrorm you that the name akritas consern the Macedonian Struggle in the beggining of the 20th century.Just searching a little bit more, more hard of course from the Cyprish history.
And of course I will wait your answer as about "Kibris Turktur Cemiyeti" ?
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/cyprus-issue-topic/1579-rachel-salomon-pseudo-state-propagandist.html#post13080
have a nice week
I have not gotten the chance to look over your arguements yet. I will do that at work this Tuesday. Whether your arguements are unbreakable or not is yet to be proven, as I have not looked them over yet. Have a nice week!
Little Rachel, as you've proven time and time again you're nothing more than an ignorant propagandist (thanks to my post you finally learnt what the word means)..
As for your so-called proof.. sorry child but you've proven NOTHING.. all YOU learnt was that the Hellenic Cypriots (THE MAJORITY) wanted to be liberated an unite (to use your fellow kiwi's definition) to their "ilk" and that the Turkish Cypriots demanded partition..
Untill you take off those glasses of ignorance that have blinded you and made you unable to see that the issue is NOT one sided but became a problem due to the activities of both 'parties' you remain an ignorant fool, blinded by propaganda that does nothing more than spread ignorance..
LETS HOPE YOU FINALLY GET IT....
Its obvious that TRUTH hurts some fools so they resort to deleting comments..
Here we go again...
Secondly you little ignorant racist.. "akritas" has nothing to do with the nick of Grivas nor the plan... Had you actually known the history of the people you dare slander you would have known that 'akritas' literally means "he who's on the edge" and was a term used for the Byzantine warriors that protecteed the empires' borders..
Unfortunately the ignorance, stupidity and brainwashing can not be defined in numbers for all those are described as infinite when judging your personality.
As I've already suggested.. leave politics and propaganda to those that acknowledge and can handle it.. and strive to obtain an education, cause your ignorance is far from anything that can be excused..
I read some of the posts pertaining to Ms. Salomon on the macedonia blog site. First, I was not impressed to see the reference to 'Constantinople' on your location description, Orphic Hymn. I think that ityem alone speaks volumes as to your motivations.
Secondly, I'm not seeing any point by point rebuttals of what Ms. Salomon has been writing. Rather, all I'm reading is the 'North Korea' syndorme of denial and useage of Greek Propaganda.
Ms. Salomon makes a good case because she backs up what she says. Until you and your ilk start writing likewise (AND THAT MEANS factual point-by-point rebuttal with verifiable sources to back each item up), I'm going to simply regard you as propagandists.
kiwi
None of the posts nor my choice of using the term Constantinoupoli are there to impress you and to be honest, personally I couldn't care less about what you believe..
As for the responces, you and our little propagandist have been taught volumes of history which you ignored.. You speak of point by point, find me one thing that hasn't been addressed to and I'll send it exactly where it belongs..
But from your post one understands what you know about the issue and of what little value your opinion has..
When you dare to state that she "backs up what she says", you strive to disclose that she's been caught intentionally manipulating texts, using the same quote twice and in both occasions took it out of context and intentionally presented it for something it is not, distorted the island's history based on her kindergarden level perception of it..etc
Yeah you stick to supporting her, caused I'd honestly find it highly offensive to have someone like you even thinking of supporting me...
I'm proud of my stance on this issue, and I'm proud of Rachel. The only thing I'm finding offensive is you and your smear campaign against her.
Smearing and propaganda is more appropriate to politicians than researchers, so perhaps you'll have a future running for public office. That would really be ironic, given Greece's invention of the democratic system.
So to all the rest of you Greek nationalist, xenophobic, and 'Greater Hellas' proponents,
DROP DEAD!
Kiwi, I don't wish these people dead. I am actually learning a lot by debating these people. It is part of my education to hear what these people have to say. Although I would appreciate it if they did not make this into a war of personal insults, I am willing to hear what they have to say. However, I do appreciate your support kiwi. You are a true friend. And I don't know who deleted that post. It was not me. Actually, it says the author deleted it, so you guys can't hold me accountable for that.
Rachel,
I apologize for my using those words. Mr. Hymn kind of pushed my buttons. He had - on the macedonia.com website, espoused Greek aspirations on Instanbul ('Constantinople'), which underlined his stance on 'Greater Hellas'. Those people are the worst enemy of the Turkish Cypriots as they covet the Cypriot island as a part of Greece.
True, Greeks living in Turkey have not fared well (the pogroms in the '50's proved that), but Turks - as well as other minorities - are not haveing an east time in Greece. This despite Greece signing and ratifying the Rights of Minorities treaty under its membership of the European Union.
Orphic Hymn is free to question my intelligence - and there are no shortage of people who have done that - but he has openly questioned my integrity, and THAT is a red line.
Lets see...
"kind of pushed my buttons"
This coming from the individual that just like Rachel have spewed their racist hatred against an entire people while debating an issue they obviously know very little about..
The very same individual that made comments titled:
"Hatred, thy name is Greek"
tries to interpret my aspirations, an individual that ignores that sentiment and feeling of cultural bond to a specific city, region or an entire area, is beyond nationalism and expansionist policies.. But in order to comprehend this, you first have to comprehend a people's history.. which you do not.
Sorry kiwi but your beliefs leave me totally indiferent.. no, let me rephrase... actually the feeling may be described as disgust. Disgust towards the attitude of an individual that had once admitted:
"I had thought that in my case (expatriate New Zealander now a U.S. citizen), I could look at it in a neutral sense, but I just could not do so: I ended up taking sides. It showed in various posts of mine."
Thats your problem kiwi, you still haven't managed to learn a single thing about the island, the events and its true history.. Although almost 2 years have passed from the above statement, you're still the one-sided bigot that spews hatred based on some inferiority complex of unknown origin..
You see its not about prefering the name Constantinoupoli over the newly attested 'Istanbul' (adopted in the 1930's and derives, to your dispair, from the Hellenic phrase "eis tin Polin") but your and those that claim to speak as representatives of the Turkish Cypriots, inability of making peace with the past..
The Cypriots are trying very hard to do so (and I do mean both sides), why is it that all you self-proclaimed representatives and 'supporters' do everything in your power to deny them this right, the right of peace and finally some prosperity ??
As for the "drop dead", it simply indicates where the dispair of total humiliation will drive you self-proclaimed representatives. THAT is our major difference.. I'm in it for the historic accuracy of the events, while your hatred drives you to wish another's harm..
I honestly pitty you and those like you..
Orphic, if you actually read what I said, I stated quite clearly that I was willing to hear what you guys had to say and that I did not approve of the name-calling, on either side. That means that it is not ok for kiwi to ask you to drop dead and it is not ok for you to call me a racist. If I was as racist as you made me out to me, I would just block you and delete every thing you had to say. But no, I am reading and listening to what you have to say. It is true that due to my job, I am biased in a certain direction. Nevertheless, that does not mean that I am not willing to listen to your arguements and civilly debate with you. However, if you continue to namecall Orphic, I will be forced to delete those posts. Let me emphasize again, free debate is good. Name calling and copying and pasting of entire articles is not permitted. These are the rules of my site.
Well Rachel, if the shoe fits... wear it.
If you don't like being titled a racist STOP ACTING LIKE ONE..
The topic is Cyprus but due to your desparation and your humbled if not belittled ego, you've written loads of crap (no other word to describe it) against a people and country who you obviously ignore both their mentality and history..
Right after we proved you're simply copy/pasting off pseudo-state propaganda sites, intentionally manipulated events, texts and even quotes you began your attack..
If you want to see anti-Israel mentality that can be done.. but that IS NOT THE ISSUE.. so do stick to the topic and strive to learn what you most obviously ignore.
Lets hope you finally get it through your head..
My hatred is reserved for enosists and Greek racists who hide behind propaganda. Here's a piece of news: Greece is not the center of the universe. While I have studied and admired ancient Greece (philosophers, architecture, the Olympic Games, etc.), I have had nothing but contempt for the attitudes of those who espouse the assimilation (suppression) of ethnic minorities, and the annexation of land under the guise of Pan-Hellanism. YOU JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN FOR THE TURKISH CYPRIOT PEOPLE. And since I do, you brand me a racist. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
I honestly wonder how I can keep my calm after her last manipulation and intentional desecration of the memory of those brutally killed.. But thats due to your limited debating ability and poor education.. and those my ignorant friend are the trademarks of a good racist.
You see kiwi, you are branded a racist along with Rachel because that is what you provide, nothing but racist hatred, attempting to slander a people and country with your pathetic remarks.. desecrating those killed to support an illegal occupation that has given nothing more than torment to the Turkish Cypriots..
You speak of enosis yet are totally unable of providing one quote, a single time I spoke in favor of it.
I speak and always have spoken in favor of those that have understood the population's (both sides) torment while you speak in favor of those that have cause it..
Rachel: you already got one.. the other responce will be up tommorow..
Orphic, I have nothing but respect for philosophers like Aristotle and Plato. When I was little, my parents used to take me to see Greek plays. I really liked them. I also am an admireror of Greek cuisine. In my hometown, there is this wonderful Greek restaurant called Mykanos that I love going to. I have been going there for years. Like Kiwi, my problem is with pan-Hellenism and the persecution of religious and ethnic minorities in Greece and South Cyprus. Quoting non-biased EU polls posted on the Jerusalem Center for Strategic Studies showing Greek xenophobia are not racist statements. They are facts. I am sorry if you are embarrassed by the truth, Orphic. As for quotes on Enosis, I have showed multiple times quotes from both Makarios and Samptson advocating the mass murder of Turkish Cypriots. I am sorry if you are embarrassed by your leaders words, but I guess you guys can't erase history. It is true that I might be revising history. History is written by the victors. Since the Greeks got away with genocide for eleven years and are still getting away with an unjust embargo against the TRNC, they are writing history in their favor. The international organizations reflect this bias. I am revising history in favor of the victims, the Turkish Cypriots. I am supporting the underdog. Sorry if that makes me unpopular in Hellenic circles. And I am sorry if you feel so threatened by my ideas that you have to lower yourself to name-calling. I guess that just shows what kind of a person you are and your kindergarden mentality. Number one rule of American kindergarden-----play nicely with your peers and treat others with respect. You obviously have never mastered this. I cricitize policies and facts on the ground. You cricitize the people who have the courage to disagree with you. That is the difference between you and me, Orphic.
Orphic Hymn,
Yes, Greek Cypriots were killed. But they would not have died had the intercommunal violence that had commenced with the harassment and killing of Turkish Cypriots BY THE GREEK CYPRIOTS hadn't happened. There's an appropriate addage: you shouldn't start wars if you can't take the consequences.
Orphic Hymn,
Yes, Greek Cypriots were killed, and that was unfortunate. But they would not have died had the intercommunal violence that had commenced with the harassment and killing of Turkish Cypriots BY THE GREEK CYPRIOTS hadn't happened. There's an appropriate addage: you shouldn't start wars if you can't take the consequences. Provocation breeds retaliation, and if you honestly thought that Turkish Cypriots would take without complaint the violence that was thrown at them in the '60's and early '70's, you either are incredibly nieve, or incredibly nihlistic.
No Rachel, you don't get it..
Your alleged admiration of my people's history or couisine is non-related to the topic and for once try to show your OWN personality, don't resort to parroting kiwi since its obvious that you don't comprehend his invented (and misspelled) term of "Pan-Hellenism..
Its also quite clear that my personal feelings on the Israel-Palestine conflict are also non-related to the topic, hence why I never implicated any of it in this issue.
The desparation of being titled a propagandist (a term which you also ignored) lead you to gather whatever you could find against an entire people for one and only reason, attempt to clear the racist title that I crowned you with by smearing them. Truelly pathetic.
As for the embarrasment you've allegedly noted, sorry but you can find no such emotion being depicted here. The feeling is actually pride, pride for those that prefered to live free instead of enslaved under British yoke and did everything in their power to get rid of this yoke. A strife that went against international and neighboring interests (hence why the Turkish Cypriots fully supported the British by enlisting in mass in the so-called military police of Cyprus)..
But this is not related to the events of Aug. 1974. that has been condemned, that has been denounced and is considered a disgrace by all rational thinking individuals.
At this point, I must note your incompability of comprehending the simplest of posts. Kiwi added ME to the group he titles racists that promote enosis.. THAT is what I'm talking about, I requested quotes of ME promoting it.
As for you quotes, you've posted nothing but intentional distortions of them, a fine example is the Guardian quote related to Hellenic Cypriots killed during the coup, which you dared to present through your intentionally distorted interpretation to be speaking of Turkish Cypriots..
Another fine example is your continuous and intentional manipulation of the Bunte Illustrierte, which its REAL version that mentions NOTHING remotely close to massacres is presented by the pseudo-state itself.
I could go on with your latest disgusting and inhuman attempt of desecrating the memory of Tasos Isaak who was murdered in cold blood by GREY WOLF FACISTS and Turkish military posing as pseudo-state police.. Let me just note that should I begin to actually write the feelings this disgusting distortion has brought, you'd then and only then comprehend the true meaning of 'name-calling' and insults.
You actually accused a totally peacefull demonstration, but I'll get into that in my next post with pics to prove the hatred your every post harbors.
What you don't get is that THESE are the reasons you are seen and treated in the way you are.. Misinformation I can handle and have handled hundreds of times.. What I detest and deems you "unpopular" is the intentional manipulation of events, distortion of quotes and texts..
As for your kindergarden rule, sorry but I don't remember it since its been ages that I've been dissociated with the age and mentality it bears.. YOU on the other hand fit perfectly in the age group and level of education..
In my world the world of grown ups, the mentality is you are deemed worthy of my respect as long as you treat me with respect. The very moment you stop showing respect towards me, those I hold dear or sacred, then you become lower than the low, the scum of the earth and will be treated in that manner.
Sorry to say, but neither you nor kiwi (that only now remembered your respect towards my people and history but forgot it when you slandered them and manipulated screen names) have proven worthy of this respect..
Our difference IS that whatever I say against you I've kept it personal, I fully understand that you do not represent the sane thinking Israelites or Jews where ever they made reside, nor does kiwi represent N.Zealanders.
You are simply two misguided internet scholars that chose to spread your manipulated version of the events and when corrected, were lead by your inferiority complex to slander an entire people and country..
One thing you got totally correct is that we ARE different.
Excuse me, but if I misquoted those sources, then Michael Stephen of the British Parliament and the TRNC Information Office is equally guilty, for I got those quotes from them. I DID NOT MISQUOTE ANY THING. I just quoted what Michael Stephen of the UK Parliament said in a report that the TRNC Representative Office gave to me. PERIOD. As I have said multiple times, these quotes are real and it is YOU who misquotes documents, as proven by your citing of the Galo Plaza Report, where you took two quotes and made them the entire document, while ignoring some very important quotes on Enosis. You also ignore the events from 1963-1974. Also, as I have proven multiple times, as someone who is turning 21 this month, I am an adult and am being treated as such by the TRNC Representative Office and the University of Maryland. Just because someone does not agree with your version of history does not make them a child. For this reason, you obviously show no respect for dissenters, which makes YOU the one who belongs in Kindergarden. In my adult world at the University of Maryland, every view as validity, so long as the person can argue it rationally. I have quoted the UK Parliament, Galo Plaza Report, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Harry Scott Gibbons, and numerous newspapers. The same arguements that you make against me, Orphic, can just be made as easilly against you. Even more so, since you are a PAID propagandist and I am not paid. You read too much into that quote. I don't receive a dime for this work. I might receive a stipend if I do the internship in Nicosia this summer at the actual Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but no salary. As I said, talk to Hilmi Bey at the TRNC Representative Office and ask him if I am paid. He will verify that I am not. Ask Osman Ertug in TRNC. He will verify this as well. For an adult, Orphic, you obviously lack the skill of self-critique and analytical thinking.
It is true that Greek Cypriots were killed, but as Kiwi said, none of this would have happened had it not been for the genocide that occured against the Turkish Cypriots from 1963-1974. Also, I trust that not every Greek person thinks as your friends in Macedonia Forum do, Orphic. I have even seen articles written in Cyprus Mail and other publications recognizing the persecution of the Turkish Cypriots at the hands of Greek Cypriots. They may not use the word genocide, but at least they are human enough to understand that the Greek Cypriots have made some serious mistakes. I am also debating with some Greeks on facebook who are a lot more mature than you, Orphic, despite the fact that they are still in university. These people, although they disagree with me, don't resort to name-calling. They don't call me a racist or a propagandist or say I belong in kindergarden because I disagree with them. Instead, they are ADULT enough to counter my points. Come back to this site, Orphic, when you are willing to debate like an adult and not stoop to name calling.
YOU did not misquote anything..This is what you dare claim!!!
I honestly question your ability of comprehending the simplest of posts and I do mean MY OWN..
Have you not been caught not once but TWICE presenting the same Guradian quote as proof of H/C killing T/C???
Have you not intentionally manipulated the Bunte Illustrierte quote, even though I have directed you to its original as posted in the Osman Orek article posted in the pseudo-state's "ministry of foreign affairs and defence" site ??
Have you not intentionally manipulated the events of Aug. 14th 1996 which lead to the brutal killing of Tasos Isaak..
Maybe some of the others haven't seen this racist approach, maybe you chose to show it only towards me since your ego was humbled, since you felt humiliation.. I don't know and actually I frankly couldn't care less..
As I told you, in order to demand someone's respect you must prove worthy of it.. and you have NOT.
You dare say that I ignore the events of 63-74 when you've been taught volumes of history that no pseudo-state employer can deny..
Ask your Osman Ertug, to provide you with hard facts to refute anything I've posted..
Enough with this ignorance of you google grads that do nothing more than copy/paste off propaganda sites due to your inability of learning the true history of the issue..
If you use the word racist one more time Orphic, I will erase all of your future posts and I actually mean it this time. For your info, I am currently civilly debating with Greeks on Facebook who don't lower themselves to the tactic of name-calling. As a result, I am trying to understand where they are coming from and am actually listening carefully to what they have to say. On some issues, I actually have acknowledged that they make sense. However, with people who have not even met me call me every name in the book just because I disagree with them and take the littlist quote out of context to mean something else, like the one where I stated that "propagandists get paid more than me," meaning they actually get money and I don't, why should I take what you write seriously? As long as you disrespect me, I will only read what you have to write to refute it on this site. On some things, I might think you have a point, but due to your disrespectful behavior, you will never know about it from me. If you truly are there to be my history teacher, then teach me respectfully what you feel to be the truth and don't call me names. That is what Andreas and Constantine are doing on facebook. Isn't it funny that the pro-Greek propagandist Orphic Hymn is more hateful than actual Greeks are? Although these people might not acknowledge that there was a genocide, they can at least admit that the Greek side has made some serious mistakes and listen to what the other side has to say. Trust me, I am learning a lot from this experience. However, I repeat, I only copied what was written in the 1997 report from the British Northern Cyprus Parliamentary Group, which copied all of those quotes from these newspapers as I wrote them. If you have a problem with their translation, I suggest you talk to them, instead of picking on a university student. I also got quotes from these newspapers from the report written by the Turkish Cypriot Human Rights Commitee. If you have issues, I suggest you talk with them.
According to these reports, I spoke the truth. And why should I trust that you are telling the truth, when all you seem capable of doing is name-calling? The very fact that you do not care about my interactions with Greek people just goes to show that you will resort to any means to proove that I am racist, when my interactions with Greek people on facebook proves that I am not.
Seriously Orphic, it is YOU who is the one twisting around reports, as illustrated by your distortion of the Galo Plaza report so that the fact that the author of the report understood WHY the Turkish Cypriots wanted Partition, note, as a response to ENOSIS, not the other way around, just proves how much you guys distort documents. At least I can produce the books where I got these quotes from. Until you can do the same, I dismis your Macedonia Forum article as pure propaganda. At least my articles first two articles were good enough to get published in a non-biased publication. And as for my third, well, I think Israel Insider does not want a perminent Cyprus section. That is the only reason why it has not been published yet. The publisher even voiced such sentiments to me.
According to the British Parliament, "These dreadful events were not the responsibility of the Greek colonels of 1974, or an unrepresentative handful of Greek Cypriot extremists. The persecution of the Turkish Cypriots was an act of policy on the part of the Greek Cypriot political and religious leadership." Orphic, you simply can not roll back the clock and pretend that these events did not happen between 1963-1974. You have not been able to rebuff most of the quotes that I have provided. You have been able to distort the Akritas Plan so that it is does not look as bad and rewrite some of the quotes of Makarios, but many of my sources you have been simply unable to counter except to call them biased.
Lets see.. and this time direct answers.
A) have you not accused the H/C of teaching to their youth hatred? You did, so where is my requested quote or name of a poem?
All you have provided is some ill comparison to the Lydra Street grafitti that is a condemned event.
b)have you or have you not directly attacked the Hellenic people by titling them xenophobic and racist in a topic that is totally unrelated.. and since you DID, do explain for what reason exactly did you resort to this totally unrelated to the topic, slander ???
c) you claim to have not manipulated the Guardian quote, when not once but twice you attempted to relate it to T/C deaths.
I want to see a specific Stephen's article that does relate it to T/C and not to the coup.
d) you have twice presented a manipulated version of the Makarios quote allegedly from the Bunte Illustrierte.
I again want a direct source for the exact quote you've presented and by doing so prove that the pseudo-state's ministry is the one doing the distorting.
e) you totally manipulated the events of Aug. 95' and 96'. WHY distort the second that has been officially condemned by the UN and there are literally hundreds of links that could provide you with accurate info, so WHY the distortion especially when a H/C was killed??
f) You admit to quote Stephens and Gibbons, despite the fact that the second has been proved for what he actually is and my quoting Patrick Richards book proves that he's distorted the events.. WHY did you not stick to the highly objective Cypriot Conflict website and by doing so, finally learn the true version which you ignore ???
g) you speak of G.Plaza report.
The point as I've stated time after time was NOT to prove that the T/C are to blame but to counter your fallacious claim of H/C not wanting to co-operate with the T/C..
This may be a suprize to you, but the whole world knows that the H/C wanted enosis, but as the report in question clarifies, they wanted to unite as one nationality, the Cypriot nationality.
Its a well established fact that while the majority which in every democratic country is a significant factor wanted to unite with Hellas. The G.Plaza report simply proves that due to this desire, the T/C did everything in their power to stop this.
My last post towards you in Macedoniaontheweb, actually proves that you didn't really understand what you were reading but simply nit-picked whatever you thought would support your agenda. Not to neglect to mention that it also indicates the Stephen's group intentional distortion of the report.
h)you claim I took the "littlist quote" out of context.. Sorry Rachel but anyone with basic knowledge of the english language knows what a comparison means..
You can't say "your car is better than mine" and then attempt to debate that you don't own a car..
If your knowledge of the english language is limited, there's nothing wrong with that, just tell us so we know. But since you obviously are quite elloquent, sorry but I must reject this as a flaw due to knowledge of the language.
i).. why should you trust me.. well I don't recall asking for trust, all I've asked for are serious sources that are not implicated in some illegal real estate agency in the occupied North nor authorities like Gibbons that changed his 1968 view of the Dec. 63' events and now, makes no reference to the H/C killed..
I want an objective source that will not one-sidingly present the events as a H/C fault.
j) care about your interactions..
You honestly can't be serious.. care about someone that distorted HER OWN history (I do recall you claiming that your grandfater was from Thessaloniki) by claiming that the Jewish deaths in Hellas were product of Hellenic co-operation with the NAZI,
from an individual that attempted to totally erase the Hellenic presence from the island,
an individual that attempted to distort Byzantine and Makedonian history as a form of attack against those who dared to disagree with her propaganda..
Sorry Rachel, but if I was continuously denying the holocaust as a reaction to your post, you'd also find my interaction with Jews totally indifferent.
FINALLY.. as for your quote from the previously mentioned group.. YOU AGAIN INTENTIONALLY DISTORT THE QUOTE!!!
Stephens in his so called "written evidence" states:
"More than 300 Turkish Cypriots are still missing without trace from these massacres of 1963-64. These dreadful events were not the responsibility of "the Greek Colonels" (who were not then in power) nor an unrepresentative handful of Greek Cypriot extremists. The persecution of the Turkish Cypriots was an act of policy on the part of the Greek Cypriot political and religious leadership, which has to this day made no serious attempt to bring the murderers to justice."
http://www.publications.parliament.
uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/
cmfaff/113/113we45.htm
He's NOT REFERING TO 63-74 BUT TO 63-64 !!!!
and yet you dare question my continuous outbursts when you are CONTINUOUSLY CAUGHT MANIPULATING TEXTS !!!
Even though Stephens conveniently claims these people to be missing, we know from UNFICYP Officer Richard A. Patrick, THAT THESE approx.350 T/C WERE KILLED DURING INTERCOMMUNAL VIOLENCE OF DEC. 63' TO AUG. 64 !!!
Your response to this is now posted!
Your blog keeps getting better and better! Your older articles are not as good as newer ones you have a lot more creativity and originality now keep it up!
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